(Published in DAWN Editorial Monday 14 December, 2009)
BELIEF in conspiracy theories focusing on Pakistan is not only new, it is on the increase judging by the content of public blogs and TV talk shows.
One comes across a staggering number of people who are unwilling to look inward, instead placing all the blame on any combination of the CIA, the Federal Reserve, Mossad, RAW, the US, etc.
One natural reaction to this is to dismiss conspiracy theories as a folly present in every society. Still, in developed countries conspiracy theorists and their subscribers remain at the fringe.
In Pakistan’s context, conspiracy theories are on a different scale with different implications. Going by blogs, television and anecdotal conversations with educated and illiterate people, I would surmise we are talking about a frighteningly large proportion of the mainstream. Indeed, it is common to blame the Hindus and Jews for Pakistan’s security problems; the US, Blackwater and CIA for suicide attacks. And there is a total absence of introspection.
Why is the problem on such a large scale in Pakistan considering there are parallel demagogues in other countries? Why is the Pakistani public more susceptible than its western counterparts?
The answer can only be based on common sense since studies on the issue do not exist. The country is underdeveloped, lacks a decent social and physical infrastructure, its people don’t have access to economic or educational opportunities. Living in a war theatre, they face food and water insecurity and see themselves as victims.
Victims of whom, though? Not of themselves, no not even in part, but of the perfect villain (the US, Israel, India…), they are told by our local demagogues. And the reason? Pakistan is a Muslim country, and all the villains are waging a war against Islam. These conditions make for a fertile ground for the breeding and dissemination of conspiracy theories.
Once the black and white of it has been established, and the foreign culprits, states and agencies identified and accepted as the villains, any cooperation by the government with the evil forces is seen in the same light. This extends to fighting terrorism. Well-known proponents of conspiracy theories are continuously reducing complex geopolitical issues the country is in the middle of to simply a matter of Islam vs the West (also Israel and India). And on this canvas depicting the epic battle between Islam and the West/Zionism, our political and military leadership is being painted as ‘agents’ of CIA and the US.
The implications are grave. The common man is being prevented from seeing homegrown jihadism as a fundamental part of the problem. A housewife recently phoned in to a popular television programme on a day that a suicide bomber killed scores and, piously expressing her grief without condemning the act, said, “but first tell me who is behind all this?” This attitude is typical.
As the spectre of imminent doom (the Taliban’s entry into Buner) receded some months ago, thanks to the current government and the armed forces undertaking to decisively push back the extremist insurgency, people started to lapse into their dimly lit comfort zone of conspiracy theories. Why? Because neither have the enabling conditions changed, nor have the leaders and proponents of conspiracy theories been confronted.
Demagogues like Dr Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid are playing the game unchecked and unchallenged. The political and military leadership, including President Asif Zardari, Interior Minister Rehman Malik and army chief Gen Parvez Kayani, is being painted as a traitor for fighting militancy. The implication is that by pitting the public against these symbols of the state, and the state’s battle with militancy, conspiracy theorists are turning the public against the state itself.
This is not the Pakistan of yesterday when great games were played and deals struck behind the public’s back, when the media was largely gagged and underdeveloped and, therefore, public opinion did not matter. If a war had to be fought, it was fought, and only sold as a jihad later on to the unknowing public, as Gen Ziaul Haq did in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
Today public opinion matters, as was evident in the case of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry’s reinstatement, the demise of the National Reconciliation Ordinance, the repeal of governor’s rule in Punjab and the current reshuffle of some members of the federal cabinet. For this reason, the implications of conspiracy theories pitting the public against the state on a wide scale are grave.
In the media, there are two parallel universes operating, seemingly unaware of the existence of the other. That section of the media and analysts that carries on a rational debate on issues completely ignores conspiracy theorists. The other section, made up of specific anchors, columnists and programmes, carries on with these theories as if a rational world does not exist.
There are rare exceptions, for example Dawn columnist Nadeem Paracha’s solid response to Zaid Hamid’s theories, or Fasi Zaka’s excellent pieces on the subject about a year ago. But sadly, their words would have only reached the already converted.
The widespread culture of conspiracy theories, increasingly taking on an anti state complexion, is the ticking time bomb of today. It cannot be ignored. The two parallel universes of the Pakistani media must collide, and it is the rationalist section that must catalyse the confrontation — it is not in the interest of the other to do so.
It is imperative that space is reclaimed from conspiracy theorists, for the security of the state is threatened by it. Conspiracy theories are a clear, present and internal danger and the media must take direct action. For only the media and rational elements within civil society, be they defence analysts, politicians, lawyers, retired or serving servicemen, retired judges, cabinet ministers or ambassadors, can fight it. Such credible rationalists from civil society must be invited by the media to help fight this monster. This is an enemy that the security agencies cannot fight off.
Elements in our political leadership, like Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah of the PML-N and Senior Minister NWFP Bashir Ahmed Bilour of the ANP, would also do well not to fan the ‘blame India’ trend for the sake of political expediency. Unfortunately, India is an easy target as it provides a ready excuse for security lapses, absolving to an extent the provincial and federal governments of the responsibility to ‘do more’.
78 Responses to “Clear and present danger”
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December 14th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Excellent article!
The conspiracy theories do exist in other parts of the world,there are around 10% of American who believe US never landed on moon, but our problem is that even most of the educated class in our society believes in conspiracy theories..
The mulla’s bread and butter depends on blaming US,India and the Jews but it is very shameful when the likes of Hamid Gul indulge in such activities.
Of course,other countries have their own interests but blaming others and ignoring our problems, seems to be our national policy.
December 15th, 2009 at 1:00 am
thanks Gul for writing this article, please keep it up. let this issue dont dry. I dont understand nobody is taking him to the task. no one is writing about this lunatic war monger, who is openly spoiling the unripened minds of younth by his gibberish talks. he is injecting fake and unrealistic testerones in youth by his emotional speeches. this menace must be harnessed.
December 15th, 2009 at 7:22 am
adil and zia m
Thank you for your heartening responses. I sincerely think conspiracy theories are rotting and endangering this nation from within just like rampant corruption is.
And Adil, other people like Hameed Gul, Imran Khan, Shireen Mazari, certain media personalities etc., (unlike zaid hamid who appears completely insane) are even more dangerous in this regard as they appear in the mainstream media regularly and carry credibility with a large section of the population for entirely different reasons (e.g., no financial corruption in case of IK, GH’s ISI ‘credentials’).
These people’s fantastic theories and assertions, the garbage they offer in the way of ‘analysis’, are never challenged directly. The media needs to provide opportunity to rationalist elements within our civil society to directly challenge and question the ‘nazil wahi’ these conspiracy theorists appear to operate on the basis of – for example in the shape of direct, face to face argument/debate on popular talk shows.
It is probably too late to reconvert those ordinary people (like the house wife, student, banker etc) who have already acquired a conspiracy theorist bent of mind – but such national debates will at least provide a more balanced choice to our next generation, the future of Pakistan.
It is also imperative to drive home the point that though there is some truth to the fact that some geo political events have demonstrated imperialist intent of Superpowers (a no brainer), and though India has been tit for tatting with regard to mutually assured insurgencies, it is completely wrong to focus entirely on those.
Until we recognise, admit and begin to rectify our own part in our continuing downfall, instead of living in a perennial, unchangeable, Isam versus West victimhood, we will not be able to strengthen our own nation.
December 15th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Very well written article. Good analysis from a view point which is not explored by majority of our nation.
But to add to it, I think that these conspiracy theories don’t come into such full swing out of no where. There are always some realities upon which such mania is built. And at least, to find those realities is our duty, so that none of people whom you mentioned can use these realities as morphine to develop mania within masses.
Although You’re right that there must be well marked difference between patriotism and such mania. But, discarding one view point in totality is not a solution to the problem you discussed in this article. Although it’s not us completely right, yet it’s not us completely wrong.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:46 am
That’s very gud and excellent article
http://www.pkcolumns.com
December 16th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I DO — think 9-11 was so much a lie. Why is a one world government a problem? Why is coming together such a horrible thing to you people? I mean what you see is what you get. It Happened. The whole world saw it happen. There were reasons that America was attacked. Bush Admin’n did “Let it happen” they got them when they were weak. I agree with Conspiracy Theories that the reasons behind the attacks were money an oil. As far as the enemy not existing, I Do Agree. I believe there is a real threat to Western Capital System existence as per freemasons cum Neocons Nation. It all doesn’t come down to if you believe the American way is the “correct” way.
Right Now —: America/West, Israel & India used the media against Muslim Ummah. So that gain strength over time-and be on the guard do not let threats misguide you. Fight back and show them you are not afraid of them.
This all true whatever has been explaining by Zaid Hamid, Rtd. Gen. Hameed Gul, Assad Durrani, Imran Khan, Munawar Hussein types of People to this poor & ignored nation as the same mastermind of NRO these bloodlines Red White & Blue been ruling this country for expanding thousands of hundreds US$ & purchase SLAVES the only way we could fight back its to start a revolution & there will be a revolution. If any of you people have any real decency, you won’t put misleading full of Stupid Articles with hardly any real facts to support them up. It sucks because the internet could be a great tool for sharing knowledge & streamlining little known info to the entire world. Instead, it is just as confusing as watching Fox News or Cnn truth is we probably deserve to be blown to shit interesting personal experience when I was at Abroad these Westerners used to tell me ARMAGEDEGON & the-New World Order was predicted in the bible. Well
The world’s oldest religion and now the largest are the roots of Buddhism. It states that you are not a body, but a spiritual being that creates and controls the body. Your abilities are essentially infinite. There is no need for a third-party God. Judaism was invented to discourage you from being aware of your true self and using your true abilities, in order to control you. The “messenger” religions were invented to make you even less aware of the truth and thus totally enslave you. Actually the media is revealing the New World Order and this poor people of Pakistan are actually delighted by it so they can be safe which makes you sick as our Bonafide leadership said, if you are willing to give up essential Liberties for temporary Security, then you deserve neither. You all stupid who praise such above mentioned DOG SHIT Articles are followers of such sort of Theory instead of Allah Jj holy Quran & beloved Muhammad Ss’s Authentic Ahadees. e.g. “A human couldn’t die until & unless his/her inner is revealed before all.” Mind You — You all have been exposed. This shit makes you all-sick. Why? Because it’s true. Altercation just for Ulterior Motives – My foot!
* K. O-A’n = Kiya Obama-Admin’n
(Typical American Style to Judge the Reactionary Mood)
*Jhoot Sara Sirr Jhoot Jab Deikha Kay Pakistani Fauj Nahee Ho-Rahee Tayiar-
*K. O-A’n. Nay Reactionary Mood Deikhnay Kay Lee-ay Nahee Kiya Tha Hoshiyar-
Tu Obama Noble Prize Winner Nay Apnee Face Saving Kay – Yeh Bahana Kiya Tayiar-
http://www.ummatpublication.com/2009/12/15/lead62.html
December 17th, 2009 at 3:40 am
Theories serve a very useful and logical function of filling the voids in knowledge. Conspiracy theories serve similar function when political decisions are not logically supported. Thinking people know that something is missing. We all know that Iraq and Afghan wars had nothing to do with oil and money because Dick Cheney said so. It is all about 911. I must be out of my mind to think otherwise.
Why would you ever believe India has any bad intent about Pakistan. They have been so nice all these years and you malign fair name of preacher of peace. Now look at this, you are giving bad name to Zardari just because he thinks India is not the enemy. You just have no shame.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
The core and mother of all of conspiracy theories you are mentioning is that the events we are experiencing are happening as an epic battle between right and wrong. The theory implies there exists something that is Right (God) and on the opposite is something that Wrong (Devil). Basically this is the view of those who we call believers in God.
On the other hand what you mean by the “rational” view is one that is based on atheistic point of view and denies the existence of ultimate values and therefore existence of any higher being. In this view things are happening randomly and without any pre-texts. Everything can be molded into good or bad depending on actions of individuals. If there appears to be a pattern in events, this is just an illusion.
The above two world views exist because of their underlying beliefs. Many people are in the middle here or there. However by mere pointing out the dangers of ones point of view wouldn’t solve the problem because it is entrenched in the fundamental beliefs.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
@RA
You are completely wrong about what I said or what I mean. At the risk of repeating myself, I’d like to clarify to you that I am not the one saying there’s an epic battle between right and wrong.
I said geopolitical events are being portrayed by the most extreme conspiracy theorists as an epic battle between Islam and the West.
Next, this entire piece or any meaning behind it has absolutely no connection with the question of the existence of God, or people’s religious beliefs or lack thereof.
In the context of this article, ‘rationalist’ means that section of the media/ civil society who debates on the basis of available facts or reliable information, and applies principles of logic and fairness to that debate.
The ‘other’/conspiracy theorist section of the media/ civil society that I refer to in my article, carry on demagogic debates based in half truths, lies and paranoia. Where facts are used, these are almost invariably used to arrive at conclusions that have no logical connection to those facts.
December 18th, 2009 at 3:20 am
There are plenty of nutjobs all over the world but unfortunately we seem to have more than our share.
http://www.waitingforarmageddon.com/index.html
December 18th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
@Adnan Mansoori
what on earth do you mean? do you think it would be possible for you to sum up in 150 words or less what you are trying to say ?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
@gul
great piece once again – at least someone on this blog is making sense for a change….
December 18th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Though sad to see the mass exodus of the sensible from the site.
December 18th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
In simple English:— The internet is the most important mean to spread the information. Let’s fight against those who want-to control it. People of all walks of life are waking up. The Left/Right system we have in place is just a pretend drama to keep us divided & infighting & therefore weak.
Therefore the rest of us need to be ready to receive the declared American Slaves when they realize Obama is owned by the Bush owners. I don’t see how they can be allowed to meet like they do, they have Law Enforcement Agencies, Police & Secret Service to ensure no one can get in to these meetings. I don’t know what to make of it. Isn’t it is very strange? We Pakistanis are going to cut Ms. W. Ann Peterson & Hillary Clinton with full of applied force it up their bleeding…… (deleted by Gul) ……which are joyful for Jiyala Party & rest of American Presence Lovers in this region! ——— Got it or you require further elaboration in simple & straight manner?
*I. L. N. H. R. = Issee Liayay Nahee Ho-Raha
*M. W-e-M. S. N.S. = Muslim Wahdat-e-Millat Say Na-Shanas
Jamhoriat Ka Pehna Kur Libass- Muslim Ko Maghrib Karay Bay Libass-
*M. W-e-M. S. N.S. — *I. L. N. H. R. – Maghrib Kee Tabahee Ka Aghaz-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkrMmjWnM7w
December 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
@ Adnan Arshad Mansoori
Kindly do not use abusive and vulgar language on this blog. We are trying to carry on a debate and your language does not help – for the moment I’ve censored the offending part of your speech.
However, if you cannot help yourself in terms of the language you use, please desist from commenting on this blog.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
can you somehow prove that ur article is not a conspiracy theory in it self?
i mean a conspiracy theory against another conspiracy theory.
Sooner or later one has to make a decision depending on the given information.
I am not trying to defend ZH but most of the predictions he made proved to be correct.
Yes we should not waste our time in conspiracy theories but as someone above said, there is always a reason why people start questioning events and try to join dots. Is that not how detectives solve crimes?
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Also what do u suggest we should do? how will we know who is right and who is wrong.
Let me ask u a question. I have a gun and u have a gun. I get into ur street and start killing people. now i turn towards u. will u wait for me to explain myself and u to reach a solid conclusion about my motives or will u pull the trigger before i pull mine?
Now if u shoot me first, can u prove that i was for sure going to shoot u? No!
and if I shoot u first then u r dead. and knowing right and wrong is no good once ur dead!
This is the situation we are in. And it is a place between a rock and a hard place. But still we have to find the reasons and motives of this mess so that we can learn and grow wiser. These analysts help us understand the problems because WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO LIVE!
Only Allah know the whole truth. we just work with the information we have. this is our limitation by our creator and we have to accept it. Else we will start getting confused about what is visible to us too. Confusion leads no where and we all want to be somewhere. u decide what u want!
December 25th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Gul
Great and sensible article. I have a hard time convincing my friends not to believe in conspiracy theories. To blame others for our misfortunes is easy and shows our own inherent weakness. IK means well, and for the most part talks sense.
Unfortunately conspiracy theories are believed by both the educated/illiterate, rich/poor as it is more comfortable than the truth i.e. bombings in our country are being carried out by Muslims( misguided) but still Muslims.
December 25th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Let me clarify the last sentence, what I meant to say is the notion that bombings are carried out by non muslims is part of the great conspiracy theory presently making the rounds.
December 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I would just like to ask the following questions-
1. Is it a fact that USA and NATO are in Afghanistan is a conspiracy theory.
2. Is it a fact that their intelligence agencies are actively operating is a conspiracy theory.
3.Is it a fact that since 2001 the American warplanes have repeatedly and continuously carried out bombing of civilians under the justification of attacking terrorists is a conspiracy theory.
4.Is it a fact that the Indian Govt: is spending a very substantial amount of money in Afghanistan while it’s own citizens do not have the basic needs.
5. Is it a fact that Mr. Zardari and those allied with him are continuing the policies of Musharraf.
Then imagine the effects of all this from a political and military standpoint on the population of Pakistan . If one is to blame-( calling them cosnpiracy therists)- Imran, Hamid Gul and others for putting forth their analysis of the situation- then what is to be said about those like Zardari etc who are pushing the agenda of the US and the West.
The manipulation of public opinion is possible but perhaps not as easy as the author appears to imply here. You can only manipulate public opinion IF there is evidence to support your efforts. In this case all the evidence is right there.
What Bilour should say or not say should be upto him- and that is what Freedom of Speech is supposed to be. The people have enough sense to sort out the grain from the chaff.
Or perhaps here an attempt is being made to say that the “stupid people” of Pakistan cannot digest the information available to them without a helping hand from those with ” Rationality ” Stamp !
December 25th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
It is also a fact that US is a super power.
It is also a fact that US has its intelligence agencies in almost all the countries in the world.
It is also a fact that in last few decades Muslims have killed more Muslims than anybody else.
It is also a fact that a bunch of ill-advised Muslims attacked US citizens on 9/11.
Now imagine,if it was an Islamic super power instead of US.
What would be our response?
We will be sending letters to all non Muslim countries to convert to Islam or we will come and butcher all your people.
@shimatoree,
You must be one confused soul,on one hand you advocate women’s rights and also support Taliban and use abusive language for Asma Jahangir.
,
December 26th, 2009 at 2:34 am
Zia
Shimatoree is not advocate of women’s rights. He definitely has personal interest in that woman and that is why he wrote his propaganda article regarding divorce in his blog.
December 26th, 2009 at 3:01 am
@zia m
“Now imagine,if it was an Islamic super power instead of US.
What would be our response?
We will be sending letters to all non Muslim countries to convert to Islam or we will come and butcher all your people.”
You can not assume this. Extremism is present in a small minority of muslims – however it is sustained and fueled by injustice. Also exacerbated by the feeling of impotence in the face of economic and military superiority.
December 26th, 2009 at 3:02 am
zia m
The situation on the ground to day does not respond to wishes- not mine , not yours not anyone’s.
Anyone who creates a situation on the ground must know there will be reactions.
Atta and his cohorts did something on 9/11-
-the reaction came. Those that brought that reaction on Afghanistan must know that there will be reaction which is the situation to-day.
Perhaps it might be best for you to not worry about my confusion-
- but about the practical political scenario as it is evolving at a very fast pace and it does not look very good.
Just wishing and hoping to have your cake and eat it by just stopping or preventing Hamid Gul or Imran Khan or Qazi Hussain Ahmad from putting their views in the public domain it ain’t going to do it.
Adios.
December 26th, 2009 at 5:55 am
Khanseena,
You are right the extremists are a minority among Muslims but they are the most vocal, and they have the support of a large number of apologetics.
I was giving an extreme case scenario.
Dick Cheney,Bush and neocons also represented the ultra right wing nuts,not a majority in US.
US Navy came in existence in response to Barbary pirates.Let’s not forget our history.
The topic is about conspiracy theories.What do you think is the percentage of people in Muslim countries who believe OBL was not involved in 9/11?
December 26th, 2009 at 9:04 am
@khanseena
Thank you very much.
Yes, it’s the unfolding tragedy of today’s Pakistan that people out of their sense of victimhood, the comparatively easier task of lapping up simplistic yet unsubstantiated theories, and the attraction of blaming others rather than recognising some fundamental faults within their own value system/society, do not learn to think critically.
The result, as you say, is that you or I cannot convince anyone once they have acquired the conspiracy theorist bent of mind.
On a separate note, I will only grudgingly concede that Imran Khan MAY mean well – after all I cannot look into his heart. But on whether he makes sense for the most part, I have to wholeheartedly disagree. That is a separate debate
December 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
On the comment that extremists are a very small minority
- Just come to the NWFP, go to the villages and talk with the population. It will enlighten you in a way that you might not have expected. Of course everyone is not going to Afghanistan with a AK 47 or becoming a suicide bomber but the general population’s views are what you might describe as extremist.
-The fact that Imran continues to speak on this subject- or Qazi Hussain Ahmad speaks on this subject or Munawer Hussain speaks on this subject says one thing and one thing only- there are a large group of people who want to listen to it as it resonates with their own views.
After all Imran is planning to get elected and all politicinas want to say what the voters want to hear.
So the question arises as to why Zardari or Nawaz Shareef and their party are not doing the same. First because Zardari is already in power thanks to the Americans and Musharraf and NRO.-( and the death of BB) and Nawaz Shareef feels that he will come to power with the help of the same.
As regards blaming Mossad,CIA or Indian intelligence- they are already here in Pakistan and everyone knows about it- so what conspiracy theory are we talking about.
December 26th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Dynasty-
using civility – your comment can only be described as false , malafide and without merit.
The article Divorce by Mail is not propaganda- it. All the events in it are facts.
All you have to do is to go to the court house in Rochester, Minnesota and study the case. The facts are there.
But I am not the topic here- conspiracy theories are.
December 26th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
zia m
“support of a large number of apologetics.”
apologetics ?
is that a new word for conspiracy theorists ?
December 26th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
shimatoree
I meant the Taliban apologetics.Some of them enjoy the fruits of secular democracies in the West but advocate Sharia law and Taliban.
Actually they are hypocrites.
Ring a bell?
December 26th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Apologetics is
the whole of the consensus of the views of those who defend a position in an argument of long standing.
The term comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογία), meaning a speaking in defense.-( Wikepedia)
December 26th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Speaking in defense of Taliban are Taliban apologetic or Talibam apologist.
The term “apologetic” comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογία), which means in defense of. Therefore, a person involved in Christian apologetics is a defender of Christianity or Christian apologist …Wiki
December 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Zia m
Just because I stand up for the suffering of women in our society while at the same time speaking about the Taliban movement in an analytical manner-
Does that make me a hypocrite in your eyes ?
If so, then I feel sorry for you-
no one should try to put another person in a defined BOX -( implying that if they say that then they must be like that).
Just because I speak about the happenings in my homeland as a result of the invasion by the Western Forces-( Pakistan’s NWFP and Eastern Afghanistan) does not and cannot mean that I will not stand up for the suffering and injustice dished out to women or any other group by the society
December 27th, 2009 at 2:32 am
shimatoree,
‘Just because I stand up for the suffering of women in our society while at the same time speaking about the Taliban movement in an analytical manner-
Does that make me a hypocrite in your eyes ?
No.Please read my posts again i called you “confused soul”.
Taliban movement and Women’s Rights are contradictionary in nature.
Now, if you choose secular democracy for yourself and support Taliban’s sharia law for Pakistan,( i don’t know that) i call that hypocrisy.
I have never in my posts opposed the right of Afghan Taliban to defend their homeland.I’m opposed to TTP and consider them kharjites.If they want to help their Afghan brothers, they should go and fight the American and Nato forces,killing innocent Pakistani civilians is treason in my opinion.
Sorry, i don’t have a soft corner in my heart for the enemies of my country.
December 27th, 2009 at 2:38 am
contradictionary should read contradictory.
December 27th, 2009 at 3:24 am
Zia M
I shall let it slide.
December 28th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Asalam walaikum warehmatullah
My code name is Abu Khalid. I am 33 year old Pakistani citizen & my mother city is Karachi but right now I am not in Pakistan. I am one of the Taliban strategic & planning Commanders & can’t disclose my location I am not allowed to interviewed or answered to any media. From 1996 till now (up & down) I am with those peoples our world says “Terrorist or extremist “. Allah knows better I am not involved in any atrocity in Pakistan. I forced to my Ameer let me answer to my own country’s peoples through this blog. So Miss Gul should be happy that one of the targeted audiences is replying and reading her Blog carefully and positively. I will not defend Taliban ideology or strategies here but as a Pakistani citizen so hopefully you would reply in the same fashion. Thank you very much for all the readers. I got internet service some times whenever we reached to city areas & I charge my Lap Top with an ‘EXIDE’ car battery and can’t stay at one location for a long time so wish you a good luck for the journey we begun to help each others. I am very happy to see that our peoples are looking country’s situation by different visions whether with contrary eyes or with decisively behavior. Most of the audience including writer of this blog showed their great interest regarding our country and need to be appreciate to their positive thinking. I am very thankful to Shaheen Sehbai to successfully running this plate form.
Pakistan ‘A Distorted Society ‘
Where the subject is concern, my opinions, questions & reservations are as follows & for the solution Inshallah I would give my suggestion next time.
In the Blog writer mixed plenty of Islamic ideologies, facts, persons, situations & Issues in one Plate, its nice for the taste but hard to digested. Hope fully you will receive my words with accompanying manner. Our Main problem is within our hearts & Minds we still don’t know what we want. Do we want to see this blog on democratic point of view or Islamic point of view or should we look as a Muslim or first as a Pakistani? Which type of country we want?
‘An Islamic State of Pakistan’
“A democratic State of Pakistan’
‘A liberal democratic state of Pakistan”
‘A socialist state of Pakistan”
First we need to decide this because according to the constitution of Pakistan there is no Democratic, Liberal & socialist Values mention to follow to the people of Pakistan. If anybody doubt about this go through ‘ Constitution of Pakistan 1973’. And there is no space in Islam for democracy, socialism and liberal values. Today we are looking that what happen to those government who accepted democratic type of Governance I.e.
1. Turkey: 72% of vote casted for socialist & liberal society in Turkey
2. Palestine: Hamas win an election by democratic process but America rejected them
So what about tomorrow if peoples of Pakistan want a free sex society? Would it be possible? If NO because it’s not in Pakistani constitution so why all other wrong thing is implemented in our country which is not match with our constitution?
The biggest conspiracy of the world is “Divide peoples in different opinion on one Fact “. Due to this notorious Phenomena today we can’t stand up on one “Fact “i.e
1. Which type of Islam we want? Saudi Model/Iranian Model/Taliban Model/Egyptian Model
2. Which type of liberal society we want? Free American society/European Model/British Model?
3. Why we want liberal society? & in what extend?
•See how much vulgarity today we are looking country vide.
•Who are the biggest users of Wine in Pakistan? Non Muslim or Muslims?
•See what our Fashion Models males/females are doing?
•How many peoples involved in Interests ‘Sood’ process even we are doing Hajj & Umrah on credit cards and expecting Rehmat from Allah Subhan o Tala!! Isn’t funny?
•Urdu is our ‘National Language’ but in how many languages we are divided? Local languages as per our locations, English in offices, Education institutions, Arabic in Mosques.
•As per PTA (Pakistan Telephone Authority) 69% Pakistanis are search for sex material on Internet. (Annual report of Internet Sex Traffic in Pakistan) duration (2005-2007)
•If you ask with any Muslin in Pakistan that is he/she is Muslim? The answer “Yes Alhamdullilah “where you want to go after death “Inshallah Jennah “. But the question is how many peoples are acting as Allah Wants? Above conversation based on collectively attitude of the society done by us not on individual acts as if you count each person’s acts or deeds toward the society its make healthy & positive society. All above activities we are doing in our Pakistani society its not individual act that you can say its not concern.. Its concern because we are the one who makes society not society makes us.
There are just 2 countries or Nations appeared on the world Glob which based on Religious Ideology and those are Pakistan & Israel.
1. As we all knows Pakistan was freed with the name of Islam & the biggest ‘ NARA’ was Pakistan ka matlab kia “La Illaha Illallah ” was it or not ? & it’s mentioned in Pakistani constitution that “Allah is one & all Pakistani constitution would based on Quran & Sunnah & no legislation would not cross touch to the Sunnah “, correct me here if i am not wrong please. So today told me just One Pakistani constitution which is based on Allah’s order or based on the True Sunnah as the same. All Islamic laws we just close in a box of “Islamic shariah court “that is for family issues ‘ not for governance.
(Hope fully would not reject to this point on the basis of old or 1400 years ago’). I offer to writer told to the audience including me that why we should not start with a Letter ‘A ‘ rather then mixed whole alphabetic order?
2. If we accept this Truth that Pakistan was based on ‘ An Islamic ideological Based country ‘ so today all our Judiciary system based on British legislation do we have our own Laws or legislation system?
So fight first for those rules & regulation you want to implement on Pakistani citizens.
‘Bloodshed History or Pakistan by its own peoples ‘
Check the below incidents, their facts never disclosed publically and who are behind these conspiracies?
•Motorcade of the Founder of Pakistan hang over 6 hours in Karachi when he was ill.
•Who shot dead to first prime Minister of the Pakistan Liaqat Ali Khan?
•The Ambassador of Russia was waiting in foreign office more then 3 days and we never accept their friendship & today see what we got from our loving Friend America!
•In 1962 China informed to General Ayub that we are in war with India and now boarder are free to enter you can easily launch your offensive & enter in Kashmir but we refused .
•Check the failed war strategies in 1948/1962/1965/1971 & 1998 kargal.
•Assassinations of big shots like Bhutto/Zia/Murtaza Bhutto/Benazir/Mushaf Mir/Asif Nawaz Janjua.
•Brutality in Bangladesh/Lal Masjid/Fata Areas by our own army.
•Over Rs/-154 Arab issued by different banks to politicians, business mans & beorocrates & no pay back? Who is paying these Taxes?? & who is beneficiaries?
•Institutional Fraud sugar Mill, KESC, KSE, Banks, and Land mafia done by whom?
•As all we know today Americans & their Allies are fighting an illegal, contrary & injustice war against a Muslim Nation on the name of “ war on terror” and to “Save American Peoples ‘. Also its crystal truth that there were no Afghan Muslim was involved in 9/11 act & there is no resolution of UN authorized to American war machine to destroyed innocent Muslim by their botched & massive brutality. A very Bad part of us that we didn’t remove our hands from both parties. Taliban never asked for our help it’s on our record. Why we didn’t closed our borders and let free to decide both parties in ground but we didn’t we wanted to ‘make Bread in other kitchen’ and now today when our hands are burning so we are throwing shits on other faces. The 4 major benefits our Govt. were singing on all plate forms are here,
1.To Resolve the Kashmir Issue
2.To Removal of Rs/-45 Arab US $ deficit of Pakistan ( Today over Rs/-65 Arab US $)
3.America will provide a business path to Pakistani products in American Markets
4.Investments in different National project to Boost Pakistani Economy
So where the above 4 major are benefits which international community promised with us?
• We paid over 10 Million pound on the death of one British journalist ‘ Denial pearl’ to his family so what about over 1 thousand Pakistani citizens died in drone attacks from 2006 till now ? And 45 journalists killed till now? Who allow this brutality attacks on which constitution of Pakistan?
•We should shamefully accept this truth that we are involved in the same botched as America is doing , we are like “ Bounty Killers “ and getting money to gave our air space, Air forces bases, silk road traffic routes, logistic & intelligence support against whom ? “ A Muslim Nation ‘? Over one hundred & fifty thousands Muslim died in this war. Over 66 thousand American flights from Pakistan to Afghanistan to bombed on Muslims? From a Muslim air space and more over that our govt. is getting monthly and yearly US $ on this act & not shamed. So what do you want from Allah? Rehmat or punishments?
•Today if Afghani, Pakistani Taliban, Pakistani Pashtu or afghan Pashtu are killing us with or without the help of foreign hands so why we are crying??? What we are doing with them? Often we read that “history Returns it self “so what about today with us?? Check our necks first before to blames other peoples related Islamic school of thoughts.
So above are just small examples of the ‘Blood Shed History of Pakistan by its own peoples ‘. So rather then fight with each other and blaming to Mullah, Molvi, Shia, Sunni, political parties, Taliban, Al qaida we need to do a ‘ Tobah ‘ collectively with Allah as Prophet (PBUH) said “ you will never found peace in heart & in your life until & unless you will never return to the path of of Allah “. When we will do this Inshallah we will found the guidance from Allah!
For the solutions I would answered in next turn Inshallah.
Wassalam
Abu Khalid
December 28th, 2009 at 11:07 am
@Abu Khalid
These are the bitter truths that many of us dont even like to discuss…We got to accept the fact that we have failed our duty as citizen of an “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”…manya times we keep our self busy in just blame games but never really try to find where and how much have we worked to bring the positive change around us…sadly we have learned a little from the past and keep electing those deceptive leaders who have brought no good to the nation….isn’t it our own fault?…”Change” comes from “Within” first but we always want the next person to Change first….
December 30th, 2009 at 10:11 am
@ Zia and Dynasty
Please be advised, Shimatoree is actually Dr. Rifat Hussain; low-life villain of sioux falls, south dakota, who also posts comments by using name Khanseena.
December 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
The bitter truth is that the perpetrators and believers of conspiracy theories cannot be reasoned with, how in Pakistan they pose as alternative reality. The reason behind Mr.Hamid’s growing popularity is that he paints a picture of glorious past and a promising future. None of which is true! What is important that the educated people must not find refuge in such theories and embrace the reality so that we can move ahead?
December 30th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
@Imtiaz
Please do not include me in ur allegations. I know no Dr Rifat Hussain, and I have never been to south dakota.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:39 am
Hi Gul,
It is a sad truth that the so-called “religious figures” or clerics in Pakistan have this uncanny hold on the public, mostly the uneducated population, and they have pretty much always been successfull in either swaying or setting the opinion (of their followers) in the direction of their own liking.
It is also undeniable that these people (Clerics) have sown seeds of hatred
based on their own twisted believes. But, if I present a theory and back it up by some arguments that are based on observation then would it be fair to dismiss my theory as a “conspiracy theory” and term it an internal danger to the sovereignty of the country? I think not. For example, you have (graciously) termed Rehman Malik as the Symbol of the state but if the same Symbol of the state makes a statement that India is actively involved in fanning insurgency in Balochistan, then it can not be dismissed as a mere conspiracy theory. It has also been stated in the media in the past that Israel was about to attack Pakistan’s nuclear installations in the 1980s by using bases in India. So, if Israel was trying to destroy those facilities back then, then why would it not try to target them again? It is also a fact that the Central Asia is rich with natural resources and so is that China has poured in millions of dollars into the construction Gawader port (I will let the others establish their conspiracy theories here!).
December 31st, 2009 at 6:57 am
Hey Amir long time!
You’ve brought up part of the key to this issue. I believe to a large extent we are in agreement – I myself wrote above in a comment to zia and adil:
” It is also imperative to drive home the point that though there is some truth to the fact that some geo political events have demonstrated imperialist intent of Superpowers (a no brainer), and though India has been tit for tatting with regard to mutually assured insurgencies, it is completely wrong to focus entirely on those.”
But then as I say in my article to reduce complex geo political issues to a black and white Islam vs. West, whilst at the same time refusing to examine one’s own contribution in the mess, is the disaster.
Now, you brought up Rehman Malik’s statement about India’s involvement in Baluchistan.
Just as an aside, first let me clarify (and I’m sure you know this about me already), that it’s not Rehman Malik that I term a symbol of State (his name like others was an example), it’s all senior offices of political and military leadership that I call symbols of State. And for the conspiracy theorists to portray these as CIA agents to the public is what is wrong and dangerous.
Now to you main point:
I would have absolutely no issue with the likes of RM, or any other member of the political leadership, if they did not just speak the truth, but the FULL TRUTH.
So, when they make public pronouncements about India’s involvement in Baluchistan, why do they not also go ahead and admit that this is all part of a tit for tat game between Pakistan and India going on for the last 60 years?
Why do they not admit that their State has unfortunately also been funding and supporting insurgencies in occupied Kashmir, and as some kind of revenge for Bangladesh, Pakistan funded and supported the Khalistan movement in a bid to try and get Indian Punjab to cede?
That Pakistan’s dream of ruling Afghanistan, and India’s resolve to teach Pakistan some lessons has resulted in India’s growing influence in Afghanistan to check and encircle Pakistan?
Were they to do that, I would have no issues. But to tell the public only half the truth is to paint the whole political game as a conspiracy against Pakistan.
These statements are then taken further by demagogues and distilled into Islam vs the West etc etc.
My other point was also an important one: that a) desist from meddling with others and b) resolve your problems from within. Again it would only be half the truth to say that what’s going on in Baluchistan is because of India, wouldn’t it?
Don’t we all know how horrifically Baluchistan has been discriminated against? If for sixty years you continue to weaken part of your own State thus, you WILL leave it vulnerable to foreign help, right?
This is why I still maintain that such statements are ridiculous and dangerous – they are made for political expediency – they do not recognize Pakistan’s part of culpability, thereby fueling fires of conspiracy theories.
I hope this helps in putting across my view point more clearly to you.
December 31st, 2009 at 10:50 am
I did a search on “conspiracy” word and found 48 match, how ironic!
Respected blogger has used this word 4 dozen times to explain his view.
Of course there is no conspiracy, time passed long ago when conspiracy was just ideas, now we have two hundred thousand soldiers/contractors and detailed regional plan known as AFPAK.
I hope people get out of “conspiracy theory” and realize ground realities.
December 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
I do agree with “Salam” that there exist real dangers in our region especially for Pakistan…Ppl like General Hamid Gul if speaks about those dangers then there must be some reality to it and not to forget the appearing incidents everyday in our country of Presence of XE,Suicidal Attacks,Drone attacks,Clauses and Conditions on Kerry Lugar Bill,Threats on Pak-Afghan Border and many more are clear evidences of US intervene in our internal affairs and that cant be just labeled as a “Conspiracy”….
January 1st, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Hi Gul,
Happy New Year to everyone. I would like to make a few points here, in response to your last update:
- On the situation in Baluchistan, I am in agreement with you that the Pakistan government is responsible for this fiasco. India is merely taking advantage of Pakistan’s follies in that region.
- Going back to the conspiracy theories, my take is that when people see that these so-called “symbols of the state” (no pun intended here) are (and have always been) hell-bend in taking care of all the wishes of the foreign powers and do not care a bit about its own citizens, who BTW put them there to solve their issues, then it is only natural that they would start calling them agents of CIA, Mossad, RAW, etc.
- As for people believing that this is a war between Islam and the West, even though I do not agree with it 100% but I do see a pattern here. The West coined the term “Islamic Millitants” to identify the Jihadis, but it never used terms like these for the likes of Serbians, who were mainly Christrains, and had carried out ethnic cleansing of Muslims in that region. The Western media always termed the Muslims in that region as Ethnic Serbians or Albanians but hardly identified them as Muslims. And what about Timothy Mcveigh, a home-grown terrorist, who killed 165 innocent people in Oklahoma? how come he was never termed as a terrorist?
January 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm
@Amir Hamid
Good point you raised here….would like to know the answer to ur question that when similar kind of brutal act is practised by any non muslim anywhere in the west why it is not given sucha hype…shouldn’t it also be called a terrorism and the person a terrorist?
January 2nd, 2010 at 10:03 am
@amir
There are nutjobs i.e., racists or phobics of ‘the other’ religion, in every society – e.g., @ziam’s video post above. Sometimes, they are even in powerful positions of national leadership. Some are genuinely phobic like Hitler, others like Khomeini, use the rallying cry of religion to advance or defend their political or economic power drives.
The U.S.S.R., Vietnam, Korea, China or Japan are not Muslim countries – but the ‘West’ has been at war with them too at one time or another. By extension, India was always viewed with suspicion and Pakistan remained an American ally against Russian influence (India) in the subcontinent, till such time as it suited U.S. political and economic interest.
The ‘terrorists’ of Afghanistan were cutely known as jihadis, the good guys, back in the days of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. On the face of it, the ‘West’ came to the ‘rescue’ of a Muslim country – where was Islam vs. the West then?
These are all political and economic power games, with ever evolving alliances – it’s too simplistic to reduce these to the kind of conspiracy theories I allude to.
Imperialism, and imperialist designs are a fact – where ever the powerful can, they will strike the weak. If there is no weak entity in sight, they will find the best, most suitable candidates to weaken before striking, in their quest for controlling scarce resources. What is so surprising about that? All recorded history is a testimony to this.
Timothy McVeigh. Did he claim to have bombed in the name of Christian fundamentalism or in the name of Christianity? He could not be labeled a ‘Christianist Terrorist’. Why not just terrorist? I believe the word ‘terrorist’ was not in common/ flippant use by the media at the time. I also do not recall the word terrorist being used for the attack on the American embassy in Tehran by Iranian Muslims at the time.
Serbs and Abanians? You focus on Albanians not commonly being referred to as Muslims, not on the actual fact that it was NATO’s involvement in the conflict that put a stop to the Muslim Kosovans’ and Bosnians’ persecution by the Christian Serbs; not on the fact that it was the ‘West’, the International Tribunal at The Hague that tried Milosevic for genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity!
Amir, Timothy McVeigh and Albanians are straws at best one can try clutching at in the hope of seeing a pattern. Even if I look at these as bad examples of any pattern, there may be better ones like the divine inspiration of George Bush when justifying his attack on Iraq. At the end of the day, however, the world is agreed on the final analysis that it was oil supplies he was after – not Islam or WMDs.
It is imperative to recognize and understand geo political interests and events, and to develop one’s own internal strengths in a bid to foil those/ protect oneself.
Oversimplification of power games, and then further extrapolation of these simplifications into complete lies, put together with denial of ones own weaknesses and culpability is what my article was about.
Last but not least, your question: “who BTW put them there to solve their issues, then it is only natural that they would start calling them agents of CIA, Mossad, RAW, etc.”
The U.S. has a rich history of supporting dictators to suit its ends – has anyone, least of all me, denied that (this U.S. practice in non-Muslim Latin America is also well documented)?
But do not forget the context of what I said: our leaders are painted as agents for fighting terrorism and an insurgency that is threatening our own State – the conspiracy theorists are making our leaders out to be ‘agents’ in the war the West is alleged to have declared on Islam. Whereas the fact is that these dictators/leaders are not ideological agents – I’m laughing now because Zia ul Haq the great Islamist, or the Al Saud dynasty with its virulent support of Wahabism, supported by the ‘West’ comes to my mind – but ordinary opportunists who seek to take advantage of the combination of weak, illiterate, backward nations and powerful patronage of vested interests, as much as they can, to serve themselves.
It’s our job as a nation to challenge that, follow the example of Latin America, Indonesia, Japan, China – not wallow in victimhood constructed upon lunatic extrapolations.
January 2nd, 2010 at 2:29 pm
@Abu Khalid,
You seem to be an intelligent,fair minded and sincere person.I’m sure you believe in a Just God.
I was brought up in a Wahabi family.Syed Qutb and Maudoodi were my heroes.After 9/11 my views on religion took a u-turn.
On 9/11 a bunch of fellows killed close to 3000 civilians and lost their lives in the process.Now the same day a bunch of fire fighters rushed to the buildings and tried to save some innocent people (who they didn’t know) and lost their own lives.
Let me ask you a very simple question, who in your opinion a just God would favour the fire fighters or the suicide bombers?
If you think the fire fighters being non Muslims should burn in hell.
How about a constable in Pakistan who gives his own life to save the lives of innocent men,women and children as compared to a suicide bomber who kills himself trying to murder innocent civilians.Who do you think is worthy in the eyes of a just God?
You have a chance to revert me back to your religion if you can give an honest and convincing answer.
January 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 pm
@zia m
You’ll never get an honest answer from this terrorist Abu Khalid because they have no relation to honesty. These people have no brains, no senses, no emotions, no feelings and no hearts, they are just the killing machines.
I hope he is MURDAR (Pashto word used to oppose Shaheed) by now.
@gul
These conspiracy theories are extremely important for the barbaric masters of these killing machines. These theories make them feel important and valuable.
There is a media group who is constantly propagating ‘lashkar from Kharasan’ with black turbans who will be the saviors of so-called umma. Although Kharasan was supposed to be some place in Iran but that doesn’t fit to their conspiracy theory so they have moved Kharasan to Tribal belt now. They would provide many fake Ahadis to support this claim.
Orea Maqbool Jan is leading this group and he always favor Taliban by quoting these Ahadis.
January 2nd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@Amir Hamid
@dildar
Molana Sheikh Bertrand Russell (r.a.) writes in his “al-ideas zaalika Have al-Harmed al-Mankind”
http://www.panarchy.org/russell/ideas.1946.html
January 2nd, 2010 at 4:03 pm
The use of religion or I should say the misuse of religion is a very old political technique. It has been used and used and used in War.
And war is well planned, well organized mass murder with a motive.
It matters not if your opponent is armed- you just use more force or more tricks or more deception. The purpose is to kill and it matters not if those that are killed are soldiers or civilians or prisoners and so on.
Military and political leaders use any and every rhetorical slogan to bring alive in those that they have to kill.
In the recent future, anyone is aware of the rhetoric used by Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin ,Saddam Hussein, Ayatullah Khomeini, George Bush, Slobodan Milosovietch, etc etc.
The masses of people under normal set of circumstances unwilling to kill other human beings.
But after they have been “stimulated” to think of themselves as RIGHTEOUS and
the opponent as SINFUL, Infidel, Kafir, sub-human, vermin and so on- they are transformed into willing and wanton killers.
But just because someone uses this political technique-( very old)- does not make them any worse than anyone else.
For serious thinkers- to allow God’s involvement somehow in this sordid affair is incorrect.
The premise that God somehow could have stopped the workings of Auschwitz or the Gulags or 9/11 is false just like for anyone to say that God either recommended or permitted 9/11 to take place.
The simple fact is that 9/11 of this world are carried out on the behest of clever political operatives and by human beings who for one reason or another are convinced/ brain washed into believing that it is the right thing to do.
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:56 am
Gul,
I am in agreement with you on the presence of the “nutjobs” in all societies. In Pakistan they are in the form of TTP, JI, the various lashkars, etc. In India, they are in the form of RSS and the like. In the US they are in the form of neocons and before you or anyone diagrees with me on calling the neocons “fanatics”, let me tell you a real story that I experienced first hand. I used to listen to the conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who has over 3 million listeners in the US (the largest listener-base for any talk show host in the US). In one of his post-9/11 programs, a caller called in and quoted Jerry Falwell (a famous Christian leader) and said that he (Jerry Falwell) was right in saying that Islam was an evil religion. Rush Limbaugh, did not even bother to condemn the comments of this listener. What does it tell you?
With regards to Timothy McVeigh, the basis of my argument was that the West should not call these people “Islamic terrorists” just because they are Muslims and they are committing those acts in the name of religion because in reality, it does not have anything to do with the religion, unless the “West” really believes that it is related to the teachings of the religion. These people are “terrorists” because they are killing innocent people because of their twisted believes and that is what they should be called.
Serbians’ massacre of Bosnians…. Yes, NATO apparently came to rescue the Bosnians but it was too late by then as thousands of Bosnians had already been killed. Where was NATO when Israel killed over one thousand civilians (including children) in response to the kidnapping of two of its soldiers? The Indian army has killed over 80,000 Kashmiris in the last two or three decades; what role has NATO played to stop that? The UN clearly gave a direction to have a plebiscite carried out in Kashmir but which country has ever cared for the people of that region? But on the other hand, how fast the West came to the rescue and creation of East Timor? Remember, how quickly Germany had airlifted the Christian individuals out of Pakistan who were being accused of blasphemy. I couldn’t agree more with you on your argument in favor of geo political interests and the “apparent” rescue of Bosnians by NATO was just that.
The way I see it is that when people see these injustices and biases all around them and see the hypocritic attitude of the West, it makes it easier for the fanatic clerics to spread hatred in the name of religion, the likes of TTP to recruit human-bombs to kill innocent people.
January 3rd, 2010 at 3:10 am
Actions speaks louder than words. if you really want to know intent of somebody, never care of words but observe/examine their actions and they will lead you to truth.
whoever wrote this article must be super stupid and must be having agenda because he is twisting facts to prove something.
Here is list of actions that provide matertial to people who believes in consipiracies.
1. many unanswered questions about 9/11 investigations.
2. american being intercepted in Pakistan
3. american being intercepted/captured on streets of islamabad in the early hours of day in typical Afghan out-fits
4. dubious activities of americans in sahala training center.
5. american driving fake licence plate vihicles, later registering them as stolen and who knows if those vihicles were used for bomb blasts in Pakistan
6. american asking for some concessions on Pakistani ports, no body would ask for favor.
7. Mushroom growth of private security agencies working for covert operations of americans in Pakistan
8. Americans intercepted in near by of kahota labs and they could not explain any reason for being there.
9. american captured in Sargoda
there is endless list. if you don’t feel convinced then go through americans or Pakistani news media reports who prove all this. and you dare then prove anything wrong that Zaid hamid says. he puts pieces of jigsaw together in such a way that even a laymen can understand the big picture. The only difference between him and youself is that you go for words and he takes their actions as pieces.
Now as to india.
what make you think india would spare a chance to harm Pakistan if she ever gets one.
1. 1971
2. Water being sophoned out of Pakistani rivers
3. Plebsite in Kashmir
4. American spies being arrested and convicted in terrorism in Pakistan
5. Mushroom growth of conslate in near-border areas of Pakistan and their suspicious activties.
6. indian arms beings caputured by terrorists in Pakistan
if don’t feel convinced then go to http://www.ahmedquraishi.com
January 3rd, 2010 at 5:01 am
Amir
Para 1.
Agree – even before you recounted the Rush Limbaugh business, I wasn’t about to disagree. So that’s neither here nor there since everyone is in agreement over nutjobs.
Para 2.
Time for some serious disagreement. You or I may not like it, but the extremism being practiced does have clear linkage to Islam – majority muslims are not extremists, but those who go and blow themselves up etc., are taught, in very organised fashion that Islam and Allah commanded them to do so.
Ahadees and Ayaat are quoted to motivate young misguided muslims to kill innocents. Whole bleeding violent movements are for khilafat and establishment of shariat.
And you want people not to call these guys Islamist terrorists?
What do you call zionists by the way?
We spend millions of dollars to create factories where young boys are taught to kill in the name of their religion, and then we don’t want the ‘west’ to call these boys Islamic terrorists? Because that is not what Islam teaches?
Next you will say those who carry out suicide bombings are not muslims, because Islam does not teach that. There is no difference between this statement and your demand to not call people ‘Islamic terrorists’ when they are taught to hate and murder in the name of Islam, when they genuinely believe it’s in the name of Islam, and when they do it in the name of Islam.
Sorry there’s no way I can agree with you on this.
Para 3.
Again, I’m sorry, but fundamental disagreement.
First, the conversation is dragged way away from the what I contended in my article.
Second, let me put it like this: to me, it looks like a conspiracy the muslims have against themselves and Islam, not the West against Islam.
You ask where the U.S. was for the Palestinians or Kashmiris. Let me ask where the 50 muslim countries were for the Palestinians or Kashmiris? Or how many muslims were airlifted out of non muslim countries by muslim governments after they came under attack after 9/11?
Muslims don’t want to help themselves – but keep wanting the U.S. and the West to do everything for them. And if they don’t, it’s a conspiracy!
The only conspiracy I see is the one muslims have against themselves: stay illiterate, uneducated, kill and condemn the arts, don’t advance, don’t learn science, don’t learn philosophy – that is haram, don’t ever dream of becoming strong: just keep debating forever whether eating egg is halal or haram, keep promoting, funding and patronising suicide bomb factories citing Quran and Hadees, but let not the world say so.
No, no – we are muslims, we are good, we know naaaathing about what is being taught in the madrassas and mosques. And since we will not acknowledge what is wrong, how can we begin to fix it.
So please ‘West’, while we the good muslims keep our heads buried in the sand, don’t go around calling anyone Islamist terrorist. Why? Because theoretically, we disown them.
In practice: thousands upon hundreds of thousands good peaceful muslims offer prayers in mosques all over Pakistan behind molvis whose fatwa after namaz contains prayers for Taliban – and prayers for Taliban success over the State, kafirs, jews, hindus, christians, the U.S., the …..
Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Calling a spade a spade, or an Islamist Terrorist an Islamist Terrorist is not Conspiracy.
January 3rd, 2010 at 7:18 am
The whole point of a dicourse is to convey your point across, therefore, disagreements are bound to happen and I am fine with that.
I disagree with your argument that because misguided people are brainwashed and taught to kill the others, the entire religion should be blamed for that by giving them a name that reflects the name of their religion. Going back to the Serbs and the Bosnians conflict, Serbs were Christians and Bosnians were mainly Muslims and Serbs were doing massacre of the Bosnians; why were then the Serbs not called Christian Millitants by the Western media when they were exclusively targetting the Muslims? Had it been the other way round, the story would have been completely different and the Western media would have portrayed a different picture of the agressor. This is why I call it hypocracy of West.
Your article talks about how people in Pakistan link everything to some conspiracy theory and that the symbols of the state should not be called agents of CIA. What I am trying to argue is that illetracy is not the only reason behind that. If you talk to even educated people in Pakistan, they would also point out some of the same things that I have mentioned in my arguments. Also, why shouldn’t these so-called symbols of the state be called agents of CIA when they take dictation from the West? Calling them an agent symbolizes that they are working for someone else’s interest and not for their own people.
You also did not get my point on the Kashmir and the airlifting argument; my point was that religion played a role there, did it not?
I do not condone the suicide bombing, the killings of the innocent regardless of their religion or ethnicity because it is fundamentally wrong. But, I am under no illusion that the West is out there to help Pakistan because it is not and I do not say this with my eyes closed; I am smelling the java.
Adios
January 3rd, 2010 at 7:55 am
Amir
Yes of course, disagreement is fine. I have no problems with that.
But lest you forget, my article did say the same thing: people from all walks of life, illiterate and educated alike, believe in conspiracy theories. I still don’t buy these theories or the arguments used to support them.
Imperialism and subjugation, which is based on hypocrisy and many other ills besides, is a fact. Enslavement of African blacks was a fact. Strong hurting the weak is a fact.
But the weak crying the strong hurting me ‘because I is black’, is not correct. The weak HAPPENED to be black.
The weak either belong to a race, a religion, an ethnic group, or a nation, as do the powerful. It was so even in the times of Islamic warriors’ conquests over infidels, at the time of conquests of Egypt, Iran and India and Spain.
Imperialist ambition knows no bounds – but the response to it needs to recognise it for what it is, not, ‘because I is black’.
As an aside, I think you are mixing things up a lot – you say you are under no illusions that West is out there to help Pakistan.
I said there is no conspiracy by the West against Islam.
January 3rd, 2010 at 1:27 pm
@ Gul
with due respect ,
I think you are the victim of the Jewish conspiracy theory to control the mind by Media diplomacy. How can you say that west is not against Islam? What about these incidents done by west to Muslims? Do you think to kill Muslims by anywhere in the world is a different issue? Then Islam? I think you need to check your school of thought first before to labeled some one wrong. How can you as a judge make the difference among the Muslims? Why you are excleting public opinion in the way Jewish lobby is doing towards Muslims. In the all blog you forced audience to accept your falls conspiracy which most of the audience rejected. If you are a Muslim then open your eyes & wrote as a Muslim. You got the job in Liberal English news paper that doesn’t mean you have license to write anything what you want. There are hundred of opinions on 1 thing from the audience but you are making FITNA between Muslim here. HOW? Did you give any solution for the incidents I wrote before? What about these incidents Muslim ummah is facing by the west & their local allies in all Muslim lands..? Peoples like you will always through a shit on other faces beside to stand on position or see through bigger canvas of the picture.
Why don’t you see picture by Muslim or Crusade point of view? See below
1.Over 60 years till now thousand of Palestinians Muslims are dying by the Israeli war machine and Jewish barbarians, which one Muslim leader or so called Muslim democratic country or Government, take stand against Israel except condemn to those acts?
2.What about Bosnia Muslim community martyred by Serb crusade under UN banner? Which one Muslim country ready to fight & raised the issue in international court or justice court & what did you get from? Nothing because all international court and justice are not under your control.
3.What about Russian Massacres done with Chechen Muslim community? All the Muslim countries are divided in their own interest and remove their hands from a bigger picture of ‘Muslim Ummah ‘.
4.What about the killing of Kashmir Muslims done by Indian army since 1948? Who solved this issue yet? Are you expecting from UN or crusades association would resolve t his issue?
5.From March 2003 till now over 1 million Muslims died in Iraq in the name of WMD. Which Muslim leader took a strong stand against them? See Abu gharaib & Guantanamo stories of the Muslims.
6.What about American invasion on Afghanistan? Till now they killed over one hundred & fifty thousand of Muslims but they change the words ‘Civilians ‘instead of Muslims to avoid any back fire.
7.1400 Pakistani Muslim died in drone attacks in since late 2006, which one leader did something strong except barking like a street dog?? Who will take revenge to these innocent Muslims? You?
8.On which crusade land Muslims invade to ruined them from last 50 years?
9.All above 6 facts showing that crusade came in the Muslim lands to make different name or causes but in the end Killing Muslims because they know we are the 2nd population in the world after crusade & Islam is the fastest growing religion and we have the true line for life not like crusades who though the religion from their social life and just visit to church on Sundays.
These are just 7 examples of crusade & Jewish lobby is gaining money to run their wall street business, Oil companies, industries, Banking sectors & arms factories and killing Muslims in all over the world with the help of our own ‘ Black sheep’s ’ . All we are looking daily on the TV that our Muslims are killing by these botched peoples but we just said Ah! And then changed the channel. You told me that who is saving Muslims Childs, women’s & Men’s from those barbarians hands today? Told me 1 example who is the one leader can take hard stand against Jewish & American front? Your voice will come back in the same way & will sleep on your face again. We should ashamed on our sins that crusade came form cool lands and want to solution on ground by imposed War on us and we have no right to defend any where on our own lands? And writers like you are cosmeticians to Muslim in different faces. Kindly don’t break the society in different opinions. All Muslims are first Muslim lives anywhere in the world & suppose to help in all aspects as prophet (pbuh) said.
These are just the Mujahedeen’s today in every shape you can say wrong them or right but these are the one who are giving hard time to all these barbarians from last 50 years. I am not saying all are 100% right but infect if our Muslim Government and Leaders are sleeping from last 100 years so who will defend? You by your blogs? Defiantly some people of the group will take stand against, They are not a pure peoples they must do some mistakes as well but what are the alternate you have to stop them? They want solve their problems at ground by power & war machines & you are looking to them to solve the issue what a Muslim we are!! Fantastic job Miss Gul…. They are handling our minds by different tools and want to think what they wants & we have the people who are perfect on their scale…!! you hate mujahideens who saved muslim boundries by thier own blood and they don’t have any interest except to save their lands from the invader but you can’t do something against politicians, Army generals, Beurocrates or industrialists who are corrupted & empty your reserves and today we are near to 70 Arab US $ defisits… so Miss Gul its better to write on those who are looting and robbering our country rather then mixed different muslim school of thoughts wihtout knowing what is the truth. thx
January 3rd, 2010 at 2:11 pm
@abukhalid
Dear brother, Assalaam-o-Alayikoum. Jazakallahu Alaykum, wama alyana illal balaagh-ul-Mubeeen. Wallahoo Aalam bi-Sawwaaab.
It was very refreshing to see your all-encompassing commentary on world events and I especially loved it when you weaved in economics, philosophy and politics with the Zionist Hindu conspiracies.
I think you would really love this video. It says everything you wanted to say, but in poetry and music (astaghfirullah for music. It is haram. But we must fight fire with fire and music with music. Loha lohay ko katTa hai, etc):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-FVCIBRmOE
Bismillah al rahman al raheem
Allah mercy
well, now, we don’t have no time for no error
Allah mercy
Wallah Mashi! Original Sheikh Terra alongside the Soul Salah Crew
big things!
ya man throw them into the fire
ya well upon them more fire, more fire, more fire! let me say dat, rude boy
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the almighty one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn, burn, burn
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the most high one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn
you see the national front man them, them a dirty kuffar
the Ku Klux Klan, them a dirty kuffar
the BNP man, them a dirty kuffar
the Ronald Reagan was a dirty kuffar
the minister Tony Blair, him a dirty kuffar
the one Mr. Bush, him a dirty kuffar
the national front, them a dirty kuffar
throw them in the fire!
me say!
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the almighty one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn, burn, burn
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the most high one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn
those who try to separate me and my Salah
they do not understand what is between I and Ra
those who disobey the koran, it’s up to Gustus
say I’m too harsh ’cause I believe and I’m hostile
towards those who practice not that which they preach
towards those who learn not that which they teach
a breach of social conduct must be your objective
my views are clear, I’m fully disrespected
of any who know and fall foul of the code
in total sanity and control of the mold
in my senses, I meant this for those who resent this
bent this to their own advantage
bent this in their own favour
and ruined the flavour
you know who you are
you see the national front man them, them a dirty kuffar
the Ku Klux Klan, them a dirty kuffar
the BNP man, them a dirty kuffar
the Ronald Reagan was a dirty kuffar
the minister Tony Blair, him a dirty kuffar
the one Mr. Bush, him a dirty kuffar
the national front, them a dirty kuffar
throw them in the fire!
me say!
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the almighty one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn, burn, burn
oh, let me tell you for disbelievers
what we have we call them dirty kuffar
them no respect the most high one
throw them in the fire where they’ll burn
(we come in here innit, and do some rappin mate)
dirty kuffar, wherever you are
driving your car, disobey Allah
heard around the world like the grand pooh-bah
we’re gonna be taking over like we took over the Shah
from Kandahar to Ramallah we comin’, sah
peace to Hamas and the Hizbullah
OBL crew be like a shining star
like the way we destroyed them two tower, ha-ha!
January 3rd, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Dear Abu khalid
I don’t understand you, yet my heart goes out to you.
I am not trying to create fitna, but to do away with it.
I think we both want peace and justice. But my way of achieving it seems to be different from yours.
My dream is for us to achieve a harmonious understanding of the world we live in, to accept the injustices and realities of life, and to work against them in a reasoned and peaceful manner.
We will not achieve it in our lifetimes, but at least we must try to leave a legacy for our children to carry on.
January 3rd, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Quote-
“My dream is for us to achieve a harmonious understanding of the world we live in, to accept the injustices and realities of life, and to work against them in a reasoned and peaceful manner. ”
To accept the injustices and realities of life ?
January 4th, 2010 at 12:47 am
Quote-
“My dream is for us to achieve a harmonious understanding of the world we live in, to accept the injustices and realities of life, and to work against them in a reasoned and peaceful manner. ”
Quiet, you guys! Shh…… Silence!…. shh…can you hear it?!! LISTEN!!
That’s the sound of a botox injection to the pre-frontal cortex that some quack just administered above his pupillary line, resulting in fronto-temporal hoof growth, tail coming out, uncontrollable face enlargement, speaking out in neighs and acute ego disorder. Also, tender sisterly love for bearded murderous troglodytes….
The botox worked! It’s alive !!! (but very lonely)
heeeEEEnnHHHeeenNNN….!!!
January 4th, 2010 at 2:41 am
Gul,
I am not mixing up things because I believe that my arguments are relevant. I do not agree with your “because I is black” argument. In the US, statistics show that the chances of police stopping an African American are higher than a Caucasian, so, “you stopped me because I is black” is most likely the reason.
Remember, how Asia was once a powerhouse in field hockey? So, why is it that the same powerhouse is no way near to what it used to be? Is it because Pakistan lacks talent, or is it because Pakistan has no passion left for the sport? The answer to both is NO because there is still a lot of talent and passion for the sport in the country. The main reason for the decline is that the West (read hockey playing Western nations here) systematically impaired Pakistan’s ability to dominate the game by introducing the astro-turf or the artificial turf because they knew that: a) there were no astro-turf in Pakistan where as they were in abundance in Holland, Spain, UK, Australia, etc. b) they knew that the astro-turf demands more physical fitness and Asian players were not as physically fit as the Western players primarily due to the lack of facilities. So, what was the need of introducing the astro-turf when any country was able to grow grass? It was simple, to destroy the dominance of Asia in the field hockey and they have been very successful in that. Do you believe that this is JUST a conspiracy theory?
Another point that I would like to make is that, why is it that there are people in the West who deliberately try to incite Muslims by publishing rubbish literature (caricatures of Prophet Mohammad PBUH, etc.) when they know damn well that by doing that, they are crossing the line? They then try to link their acts with some freedom-of-speech nonsense. Muslims on the other hand always take the bait but it is the intent of the people who start this rubbish that I am trying to highlight here. Why do you think that they do that?
January 4th, 2010 at 8:08 am
@ Zia & Dildar
Salam walaikum & thank you for the reading.
You said,
On 9/11 a bunch of fellows killed close to 3000 civilians and lost their lives in the process. Now the same day a bunch of fire fighters rushed to the buildings and tried to save some innocent people (who they didn’t know) and lost their own lives.Let me ask you a very simple question, who in your opinion a just God would favor the fire fighters or the suicide bombers?If you think the fire fighters being non Muslims should burn in hell.
First of all 9/11 incident neither done by Al Qaida nor by Afghan Taliban. Plenty of proves about falls videos & documentaries prepared by America intelligence issued on the name of Al Qaida its available on the net to start proxy war inside the Muslims and to diverted Muslim community as we know after the attack US immediately designated to Al Qaida so who will confirm it was AQ job ? first prove this conspiracy then comes to the topic of that they were suicide bombers or not .if you want to read ask me next time I would paste the link here to understand things. This incident still conspiracy for the whole world but what we know it was inside job to invade on Afghanistan because Taliban didn’t accept their offer to give safe passage to their Oil Company to make pipe lines towards south Asia silk roads. Taliban accepted one of the Argentina Oil Company to prepare lines this ‘NO’ made US angry to invade not the issue of 9/11. UN commission didn’t allow America to invade but condemn the attack & now today go through all world polls & media voted it was inside job. Where as suicide bomber is concern YES to killed innocent humans weather Muslims or non Muslim is not accepted in the Islam & we rejected them. Mullah Omar never asked or ordered to do this on civilians in Afghanistan but YES on Arm forces & army installations. But here I give you one food of thought told me: ‘Every bomb blast near a market or in civilian place they blamed to suicide bomber without any investigation because they have an empty account to hide their mistakes of security lapse. If Taliban do a suicide attack they claimed. In Pakistan I accepted they did some mistakes to attack on mosque which is not good signed & Afghan Taliban shourah gave them punishment not to do again. I am not part of the Pakistan Taliban but yes they follow the same Ameer. So if there is no justice with them defiantly they will also do some mistakes but it doesn’t mean all their acts are wrong. Today you people are against Pakistani Taliban accepted but why you people don’t come on the streets against American drone attacks which is in human & against our country legislation also & because of these barbarian attack over 1400 Pakistani national died. So what about this act when you people will open your eyes? Don’t go against the proxy war which today Pakistan is the part of & that’s why our country is burning.
Y our second Question:
How about a constable in Pakistan who gives his own life to save the lives of innocent men, women and children as compared to a suicide bomber who kills himself trying to murder innocent civilians. Who do you think is worthy in the eyes of a just God? You have a chance to revert me back to your religion if you can give an honest and convincing answer.
Every ones will stand in the front of Allah subhan o talah with his/her niyat. If a police constable died during helping to women’s & Childs its on his neyah. You & me can’t justified his death as shaheed or not even prophet (pbuh) recognized to just ‘ Ashra Mubashirah ‘ to news of Jennah & except to some more Sahaba you will found the name in hadiths but except them prophet (pbuh) said ‘ Allah gave him Magfirah”. The second part of your question is not related to the logic, told me do you think one suicide bomber blow himself for nothing? You think he blow himself to just kill innocent women’s or Childs why? If he wants to just kill the Muslims so he can do in any where why here in the cities? my friend Taliban never do suicide bombed in public area except one event in mosque in Rawalpindi it was their mistake & I don’t know why they selected a mosque for. They selec a target not to public but yes some times by mistak some civilians come under the circumstances but the bomber niyah is not to attack on the civilian he came to attack the target. But think about those peoples who are died by Pakistani jet planes, mortars attack, drone attacks the quantity is more then 10 thousand and no media shows that how they are help less no one putting the hands on their shoulders no Media showing their pictures why? Are they not Muslims or e not Pakistani citizens? Army banned media to capture these type of incidents to avoid peoples against this war its army policy so don’t say it’s allow to our army to do this barbarian act. You are doing a barbarian act against Muslims & hide to peoples because of the strategy ?? How shame is this? What about Lal masjid brutality? Why you people didn’t come on the road and oppose them by power? You people just sit on home in AC & putting fingers on wrong side. From 2001 till now Pakistan is the part of War on Terror and helping America to killed innocent afghan Muslims & now today when we are dying by the same hand so don’t cry please because its history returns time. You are paying the price of killing innocent in other part of the land now today its in your part of the land. I hope you will try to see the both parts of the coin. Taliban are defending not attacking if you will destroyed their houses, cattle’s, families without any sins so what you are expecting from a rose ? What you did in Karachi to burn 3000 shops of innocent peoples? It’s an anger mood so keep the same formula here also. You forced to a nation to burn in the war they did nothing so first provide justice to all, If today Pakistan pull over the hands from This falls war on Terror & stop to killing their own peoples Taliban will stop second day they are not against Pakistan but yes they are fighting to defend. I challenge you all here that answer to me one question “ If today Taliban is wrong so why they are resisting from last 9 years against whole world power ? Taliban don’t have air power, Tanks, Trained army no one helping them except Allah so today America & their allies are near to defeated they tried with all their latest war machine but Al hamdullillah they are defeated its not my claimed its their own voice so do you think Allah will help to Taliban if they are wrong ? or if they are doing inhuman acts with the peoples so why they are near to win? Answer this <<<<<Brother this is so far from the truth you are looking on Media or news channels, Most of the Media is bound to say what the Govt. wants they know noting just blaming all games to Taliban, Just wait this year & you will see who is True & who is liar Time will told all you later on & its not so far…..
Mr. Dildar
I would proud my self if I would died by non muslim bullet but the way you are talking it sounds ‘ A helpless women’ who just cry on the things which she can’t understand , so if you want to speak up so come with the history, logics & way of talking.
Wasalam
January 4th, 2010 at 8:16 am
Amir
I doubt that I can put across my point to you (or you your point to me).
You cite discrimination against blacks in the U.S. (a fact) who are mostly christian, and propose this as argument in the context of the theory of the west’s supposed war on Islam.
How illogical is that? Given the fact that I had tried to explain the enslavement of blacks as an act of the strong against the weak, and your own example highlights exactly the opposite of what you tried to prove, in favour of what I’ve been arguing (imperialism, strong vs weak etc):
that the blacks are discriminated against not because they are muslims, but because they are still the largely weaker/less educated/less powerful segment of that society.
I will go no further as the discussion has degenerated into a futile exercise – and what I wrote above was not to convince you of my position on conspiracy theories, but just to illustrate how unconstructive the discussion has become.
So we could just agree to disagree on this topic and leave it at that? But of course I look forward to bumping into you in cyberspace on interesting issues because whilst we may differ on this topic (and have exhausted it lol), we do have some common approaches which make for pleasant, polite and stimulating discourse.
January 4th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Miss Gul
You said
“I think we both want peace and justice. But my way of achieving it seems to be different from yours. ‘
My dream is for us to achieve a harmonious understanding of the world we live in, to accept the injustices and realities of life, and to work against them in a reasoned and peaceful manner
My reply
1.I would appreciate if you would mention here what is the way to get peace & justice today, kindly give me some of the points the way you want.
2.To whom you would recommend to get peace & justice in Muslim lands all over the world? Kindly give me the names of the associations you recommend.
3.I would appreciate to you if you will help me to know this that which Muslim country get helped by UN, International court of justice, Human rights commission from last 60 years.
4.All US, EU, GB,IL are against the Muslims in whole world by fire power & by different proxy way & you prefer to get justice in your dreams by peace ? Isn’t funny?
5.Allah ordered to Muslims fight for those who fight with you, fight for those who do ‘ZULM’ on you, fight for those peoples who destroying your land, fight for those Muslim they need your help to get out from the barbarian acts they are facing on their land and you are finding the way of peace with those who are here from decades and killing our Muslim women, children’s by fire power? & do you believe they will accept your peace deal? On what promises? if I am not true told me the events when they accept a peace deal until & unless we accept their all sections what they want. Check the history of those how they are living who accepted their culture & sections.
wasalam
January 4th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Abu khalid
I can see the condition of muslims today tortures your soul. But I cannot argue with you since you have many convictions and beliefs, and I have none.
I can only explain my simple view point to you:
In the present day world, any peoples of any religion, nation, cast or creed can only lift themselves out of misery through enhancement of human capital via education, development, civilised structures within society, strong institutions upon which democracy would rest etc.
The strength thus gained will protect such peoples from attempts of bullying and subjugation by outside forces who might already be at the pinnacle of their strength.
Pakistan has a well equipped military, has nuclear weapons, has fought wars with India – and where are we today? A desperately illiterate, poor nation.
Now to you:
Why don’t you go back to your home country and become employed in a peaceful, development oriented line of work? The sooner you all do that, the sooner the U.S. will vacate Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You see, people of Pakistan will always vote for democratic governance – so why don’t you (Taliban) form a political party and become part of the democratic process and work to uplift at least this particular muslim country (Pakistan) rise out of its illiteracy, corruption, underdevelopment etc. to contribute to Pakistan becoming a great country?
Come back and serve your country in a useful and peaceful manner. Let’s build Pakistan, and like Indonesia, show other muslim countries how their misery might begin to come to an end.
Anyway, this pipeline, it’s a hell of an expensive pipeline (how many trillion dollars has this war cost the U.S. so far?) – of which the economic break-even might take another 200 years for the U.S. to achieve, if it ever gets built.
Even I might have done better math on this project than the neocons….haha.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Miss Gul:
You said:
In the present day world, any peoples of any religion, nation, cast or creed can only lift themselves out of misery through enhancement of human capital via education, development, civilized structures within society, strong institutions upon which democracy would rest etc.
My reply:
I ^ All above your dreams will come true if ‘We’ as a nation contemplate the situation to turn in ‘Change’ with our blood. As you are looking we are divided in 100 banners of political parties, ethinic groups, socialist groups & liberal groups. So first we need to come on one plate form if this plate form is democracy for the betterment, hospitality, equal justice of law & equilibrium for the all citizens of Pakistan but again question is here HOW ? Give me the solution with the deluge of opinion.
You said:
The strength thus gained will protect such peoples from attempts of bullying and subjugation by outside forces that might already be at the pinnacle of their strength. Pakistan has a well equipped military, has nuclear weapons, has fought wars with India – and where are we today? A desperately illiterate, poor nation.
My reply:
2 ^ here I give you an example of the most literate country of the Gulf. ‘IRAQ’ go through below the fact & figures;
IRAQ: During (2001-2008) Literacy: 84% – Economy dominated by the Oil: $100 – GDP: $3.600 – Budget: $ 84.4
Above figures are based on US & NATO forces in Dec-2009. The reason to destroy Iraq was WMD which was not there since last 10 years but they wanted to destroyed a Muslim army to save Israel . Before the destroyed nuclear technology in 1983 as well also noted in early 80’s sadam was a good friend of America as we are today so see match our situation with today’s conspiracy of America the way the are here, the way they are entitled to travel anywhere in Pakistan with arms. So who is ready to pay the blood price today to save Pakistan? we have all resourced but culprit government and peoples who are ruling on us from last 60 years but we are the one who select by so called ‘ Democratic ‘ election so what did you got from the democratic election from last 30 years ?
You said:
Now to you:
Why don’t you go back to your home country and become employed in a peaceful, development oriented line of work? The sooner you all do that, the sooner the U.S. will vacate Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You see, people of Pakistan will always vote for democratic governance – so why don’t you (Taliban) form a political party and become part of the democratic process and work to uplift at least this particular muslim country (Pakistan) rise out of its illiteracy, corruption, underdevelopment etc. to contribute to Pakistan becoming a great country?
Come back and serve your country in a useful and peaceful manner. Let’s build Pakistan, and like Indonesia, show other muslim countries how their misery might begin to come to an end.
Anyway, this pipeline, it’s a hell of an expensive pipeline (how many trillion dollars has this war cost the U.S. so far?) – of which the economic break-even might take another 200 years for the U.S. to achieve, if it ever gets built.
Even I might have done better math on this project than the neocons….haha.
My reply:
Thanks for the offer & don’t feel my voice as pejorative to your offer but in Pakistan its dilemma for me to come now. I believe on your positive thoughts on some extend but not all hmm.. & you know there are lots of good citizens (like you) are doing their best to save but there are very little peoples who are looking to situation as an Ummah not just by Nationalism. So this is the just one difference between you & I. I am doing all not by force it’s my choice to way of living my life for my Muslim brothers & sisters & I am a small servant of Allah. Where the concern to evacuation of US led forces from Afghanistan so by the Grace of Allah they are near to pull out from Afghanistan. I share you something all areas near to Pakistani borders like khost, Kunar, kandhar, Helmand, Sangeen are under Taliban control & our powerful presence is in 32 province out of 33. So Inshallah we will save our Muslims lands from this crusades very soon & you will see the peace in this land again like duration of 1996-2001 as ‘Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan’ & I am looking a very viable majority who wants changes & wants to leave notorious peoples but remember one thing you didn’t get ‘Freedom’ without a blood shed & this is our history so don’t consider you will get all in peaceful manner, it’s a good idea but not applicable on today’s enemies. So both of us are same skies but with the difference of heights but still flying…….. Good luck ………..Wasalam
January 4th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Gul,
Fair enough; I shall not comment on this topic anymore because it was not going anywhere.
January 5th, 2010 at 4:57 am
“Anyway, this pipeline, it’s a hell of an expensive pipeline (how many trillion dollars has this war cost the U.S. so far?) – of which the economic break-even might take another 200 years for the U.S. to achieve, if it ever gets built.”
@Gul,
You raised an important point.If pipeline was the issue, the Americans could have stayed in Afghanistan after the defeat of Russians when they had very cozy relationship with the Mujahideen,
9/11 conspiracy has some advocates in the US as well.I can understand Bush administeration conspiring with the CIA to concot WMD story but a conspiracy to kill thousands of their own citizens is simply beyond belief.
It would need thousands of people from all sorts of agencies to accomplish such a plan and have the full support of the media as well.When CBS news got hold of the Abu Ghraib torture story, Bush administeration could not convince the media to even delay airing it for a few days.
I don’t think most of us understand how the government works in Washington.
January 6th, 2010 at 4:34 am
@zia m
Yes. What you say resonates with me – even if one were to buy killing 3000 of their own for argument’s sake, the prevention of leakage given the sheer number of people and agencies something like this would have involved, would have been impossible.
Noam Chomsky (not my god or guru), puts forth exactly your point here, also addressing the unexplained phenomenon involved and how real scientists have rejected all the ‘evidence’ supporting the conspiracy theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGd0t8v-d4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM
January 6th, 2010 at 4:42 am
Amir!!
I was not trying to prevent you from commenting on this subject – I sincerely apologise if that’s the impression I gave you.
Please do carry on if you’re inclined.
I was only trying to state what was obvious by now: that you and I will not convince each other, and had reached the point where we could agree to disagree.
Sincerely
Gul
January 6th, 2010 at 5:31 am
Abu Khalid
I like your example of Iraq, because it’s impressive. The U.S. did use the excuse of WMDs to secure oil supplies from the region.
I wonder though, if Iraq were a democracy, not had a repressive, fascist and cruel dictator (whose downfall at the hands of Americans was celebrated in the streets by Iraqi people), who had not proven himself an aggressive neighbour against Iran and Kuwait, who had not continued to lie till the end about the weapons he had, would Bush and Blair have been successful in duping and taking along the rest of the west in agreeing to invade the country.
Would all the neighbours have stood by and watched and readily provided territorial access to get rid of the threat amidst them?
I don’t have a definitive answer – but I’d say the chances of U.S. being successful would have become minimal because the so called ‘moral authority’ (albeit built on lies helped immensely by Saddam) would’ve been non existent.
Anyway, I do not wish you any luck in establishing ‘Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan’, though certainly that might be the case at least in some parts of the country. It seems peaceful self determination is not going to be the lot of the poor Afghans for the foreseeable future.
On the rest of comment, yes I can see you argue against pluralism and find it difficult to deal with (100 political parties and banners). Pakistan is still not as fractured, fragmented and chaotic as Afghanistan, still has a vibrant and increasingly strong civil society, improving institutions, a limping political system etc. and therefore a far more difficult target for ‘imposing’ any kind of rule.
And it is ‘imposition’ you are talking about isn’t it? Be it Pakistan or Afghanistan, you (Taliban) will never contemplate becoming part of the democratic process, will you? After all, I don’t see the problem if Allah is on your side – whether you had to struggle to be heard amongst 100 political parties or 1000, if the Force is with you, you would triumph and win the elections wouldn’t you?
Abu Khalid, you may be for the ‘Ummah’, but the ‘Ummah’ is not for you – not in your present form where you wish to impose on it.
The ummah wishes to be left alone.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:36 am
The Ummah has left the building.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:49 am
Gul,
No need to apologize because you were certainly not trying to stop me from carrying on with my comments. I stopped because the arguments were not going anywhere. I would like to comment on the following though:
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I wonder though, if Iraq were a democracy, not had a repressive, fascist and cruel dictator (whose downfall at the hands of Americans was celebrated in the streets by Iraqi people), who had not proven himself an aggressive neighbour against Iran and Kuwait, who had not continued to lie till the end about the weapons he had, would Bush and Blair have been successful in duping and taking along the rest of the west in agreeing to invade the country.
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I never had any respect for Saddam Hussein but I must say that it was the same dictator that US stood by against its war with Iran for years. I would not even rule out the possibility that US had given a green signal to Iraq to attack Kuwait as part of its (US) larger game plan.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Amir
Absolutely – U.S. foreign policy has had this fetching habit of supporting dictators all over the world and using them in so many interesting ways, hasn’t it? And certainly, one doesn’t put it past the U.S. govt to have encouraged that war for its own game plan, whatever exactly it might have been.
One of the good things, it seems, about Zardari was that he was taking a dovish attitude towards India, peace being in the long term interests of both countries (but more so in Pakistan’s immediate interests being a far weaker State).
Unfortunately, being a flawed and increasingly weak President, he’s been made to revert to the traditional hawkish stance by the military. The increasing hostility between him and the media and the judiciary has seen him back off from a confrontation with the military – for he personally can’t afford to be completely isolated. Hence, the current cooing noises towards PML-N and the military.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Clear and present danger as I can see it at the present is the extremist value not only in the militants but also us as INDIVIDUALS. We have to learnt to be more tolerant towards each other so we can have a better environment to live in. What is clear danger to you guys?
September 5th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
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